tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7837602322327063185.post2092551649982858360..comments2014-04-10T10:41:59.264-07:00Comments on History 318 - European Women's History: Emily Dockery on The Book of the City of Ladies by Christine de PizanHistory 318 - European Women's Historyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17976023899296886435noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7837602322327063185.post-47362393456753070712014-04-03T20:39:48.206-07:002014-04-03T20:39:48.206-07:00I love both of these comments. Christine was a tru...I love both of these comments. Christine was a truly forward thinker. Religion shaped all aspects of people's lives and thoughts, it definitely needs to be taken into consideration. In response to Cory's comment, I don't think Christine was putting down men as much as trying to raise up women. Also, if you read the entire book, almost every example she gives on the side of women, is unique and "twists the facts." I say twists the facts in quotations because Christine uses myths in order to make her point so facts are nonexistent. For instance, she discusses Juno and the Romans. She claims Juno was just a very strong, amazing woman and because of her unusual abilities and success the Romans mistook her for a god. She takes a lot of myths and flips the usually anti-woman leanings on their head. So, in her interpretation of Adam and Eve, she takes what I'm sure most men used to subjugate women (using the rib issue as evidence of a woman's secondary status and grounds for a woman's obedience to a man) and changes the story. Whether she or the readers should take the story at face value is not the focus; we should instead analyze the ways in which Christine fought back against traditional arguments of her time with new and original arguments for women, whether or not her arguments are based on fallacy or false logic. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09838111047593252928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7837602322327063185.post-20331366699839688182014-04-03T12:13:12.125-07:002014-04-03T12:13:12.125-07:00I am impressed in Pizan's ability to transcend...I am impressed in Pizan's ability to transcend her specific period of time, and relate to women's situations before her, as well as after. An interesting take on her argument for me was her mention of religion. I think this relates specifically to her time period when religion was more prominent for scholars than perhaps today; however, I believe that a lot of our original societal notions are derived from religious beliefs, myths, and stories. For example, regardless as to whether or not one is Christian, living during Pizan's time there were clearly notions left over from biblical times that inherently dictated perceptions of both men and women as to what women's roles were to be for society. It is necessary for Pizan to reflect on the impact of Christian thought to her society, because those remnants are definitely there (as they are even today). If it weren't for certain biblical events (or at least their depictions, whether or not truly accurate), such as the story of Adam and Eve, I wonder if the anti-feminist thought would even exist at all, and if there would even be a need to resist culture and societal restrictions for women. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391819512601267473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7837602322327063185.post-89607333884026702062014-03-06T21:11:07.066-08:002014-03-06T21:11:07.066-08:00I remember discussing this text in class and being...I remember discussing this text in class and being amazed by the writings of Christine de Pizan and her ability to refute some of the stereotypes of her day. Though I did not read this work, I was especially interested by your mention of Eve as a more pure version of man because of her creation in the virgin Garden of Eden. While I am not sure of the doctrinal place of this observation, I appreciate her insight and rebuttal of misogynistic thinking. I am concerned however that such a statement establishes an unequal relationship between men and women. If women are deemed "more noble" due to their creation, then it might place women on a holier plane than men. Though I have met far more pious women than men in my life, it is difficult for me to concede that women are "more noble" than men based on some inherent, pre-mortal propensity for goodness. While Elder Kristofferson eloquently showed the edifying work of women in the world in his most recent conference address (after soundly reprimanding the men in last year’s Priesthood Session), The Family: A Proclamation to the World states that God created man and woman in His own image, without mention of some superior material of creation. While gender may be, “an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose,” it does not follow that one gender is “more noble” than another. God may function through patriarchal orders, but that does not give men (or women if you view such authority as part of God’s attempt to refine and perfect His sons) the right to greater righteousness based on his or her sex. As the second and third Article of Faith state, “men will be punished for their own sins and not Adam’s transgression [and] through the Atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” Gender, therefore, does not give particular advantage for salvation and any consent to the opposite opinion presents dangerous theological consequences. Thank you for your post; I enjoyed your analysis and the opportunity to contemplate Christine de Pizan’s writingsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05275055099266214537noreply@blogger.com